Chatlog From Guest: As you were talking about business models...what in the world should we do with concurrent beneficiaries? Look at Title 2 first, and SSI is always averaged over a calendar year. From Guest: Hi, how would a delivery car be regarded if the car is used solely for deiveries associated with the business? Is it PESS? yes, if the vehicle belongs to the business. From Guest: cash vs. accrual accounting model? cash model counts money when it is received by the business, but an accrual model counts income when it is owed to the business. cash is much simplier. From Guest: For SSDI beneficiaries, you mentioned that the accrual method of accounting is preferred. Doesn't it present a problem in that you are recognizing income when there is that possibility that you may not collect all that you are billing. For SSDI, the issue in SGA determinations is work performed. the accrual model takes this better into account. the ssa is looking for work activity. if the person doesn't receive pay, they can take it as a business loss later. From Guest: i thought I heard you say that PESS can only be used by those who are self-employed. What about a hairstylist who works for as salon but has to buy and maintain their own tools? Are the tools PESS? PESS also includes equipment necessary to do a job as an employee. From Guest: My question is though, which model best suits the concurrent beneficiary who is self-employed? there isn't a blanket answer. it would depend on the business and the person's choice. The person should get good accounting advice when making their decision. From Guest: Is it considered self-employment when someone has an item patented and will start receiving income? need more information - is the money a royality? is the person selling the patent to another company? From Guest: u mean ssi people sei are average over 12 ms to determine sga,then other programs will use this averge amount for upcoming year in determining next yrs monthly allotment can you rephrase your question. it is a little unclear. From Guest: They probably will sell the patent and will receive royalities. it is going to depend on the individual situation. if the invention and patenting were done as a hobby, the royalities may be unearned income. if the person is in the business of invention and patenting, and the royalities are part of that business income, then it's self-employment. From Guest: For the SGA Determinations, how do you know which one to utilize? Which one what? From Guest: Are u saying other agencies such as Sectin 8 will take the SEI earning from this yr to calcuate amount of help to give person next yr? it depends on the program, but for individuals who are self employed the prior year's tax return is the best indicator of the prior year's earnings. programs that use prior year earnings to determine eligibility, will use the net earnings from the tax return. From Guest: What were the two types of expense deductions, business expenses or ...? are you talking business expenses or unincurred business expenses? From Guest: I'm sorry, which "tool" to use? the concurrent beneficiary who is self employed would have access to all SSI tools to determine SSI eligibility, and access to all Title 2 tools to determine Title 2 eligibility. From Guest: Basically, IRWE are used the same with self-employment as with wage employment unless the expense can be utilized as a business expense, which would be the better option? usually it would be better to use the expense as a business expense. From Guest: Yes, what's the benefit of using one over the other? they are different things. The business expense is deducted on the IRS 1040. The unincurred business expense is a Soc. Sec. deduction that only applies to benefits. it is for goods or services that didn't cost the business anything. From Guest: can u explain again what's an unincurred business expense? it is part of the SGA determination. if a business receives free help or equipment, that they normally would have had to purchase, the SSA permits deduction of the expense when determining if the person is perfoming SGA. From Guest: Thanks you're welcome! any more questions? From Guest: thank you for answering our questions. you're welcome Thank you for participating. Please use the Webboard this week if you have any other questions. The archive will be sent to you tomorrow.